Non-English Language Shrines

[Destinie]

I saw a reply from Delphine on a previous topic that made me realize that this isn't really something that we have talked about here. English is a first language for many people within our little community and many people are also bilingual. (Props to you!!) But does this make the shrine community seem exclusionary? Are there other communities for shrining out there where English is not your native tongue? How would you break into shrines if a majority of them are English only? And would you ever consider making your shrine multilingual?

If English is not your first language, have you made a shrine (or would you) that would be in a non-English language?

For me, I have never thought about it and it had, sadly, not crossed my mind until years later that people would make shrines in other languages. I would really love to see the community be accessible for people who do not speak English at all. I would be interested in seeing these other shrines even if I couldn't read them or I would use translate.google to help me understand the general idea of the site. I think allowing people to feel comfortable in doing what they love without having the expectation that it MUST be in a single language to be enjoyed is important.

What do you think?

[Lethe]

I wouldn't say that it makes the community exclusionary per se, but that it depends on how you handle it. For example, I don't think any of us would think of someone conversing on the forums with less English knowledge (vocabulary, grammar, etc.) as having less valuable input to give, or that we'd value shrines less depending on the language skills of a person, or that we'd value shrines in other languages less.

Actively making the community more accessible language-wise, on the other hand, would include things such as considering whether or not directories and plug boards should be exclusively for English shrines or whether to accept shrines of different languages as well, and promoting and encouraging that. (This could go either way, depending on what already exists for shrines in other languages.) Or opening a forum section for topics in different languages for those who can't speak English at all or feel more comfortable getting input and advice in their own language (which, again, can go either way; seeing how we're not a big community, I don't think it'd be too much of an issue with moderating, but it's something for admins and moderators to discuss).

I recently saw a few Final Fantasy shrines in German, which made me really happy, because I'm almost certain that some of the very first domains and shrines I visited were German (ANGEL SANCTUARY SHRINES ;_; PLZ COME BACK I NEED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU). I know the German community had quite the big presence back in the day, with anime/video game fansites, graphic websites, online trading card games, etc. But I've been so out of touch with anything German for a long time that I don't know what it's like these days. (If a shrine directory for German shrines actually exists, I'd love to see it.)

As for me, I specifically wanted to get better at English so that I could create shrines one day. Since English is... the conversational language of the internet that allows you to reach the most amount of people, I don't think I'd make a shrine in a different language - unless it were a creation not so much for fandom, but for myself entirely, and if I wanted the intimacy that German gives me. Making bilingual shrines as in having the entire shrine available in more than just English doesn't seem worth the effort to me personally, but I like approaching shrine-making with more than just one language (for my Le Petit Prince shrine, I integrated easy-to-understand French as section headers, and French/English lyrics; for my Cephiro shrine and other things I have planned, I compare official translations and comment on differences between them).

But I totally agree with Destinie - I'd check shrines out even if I did not know the language, and would Google translate my way through as well. XD I'd do a lot to keep shrining as a shared hobby alive, so I could even imagine things like beta-reading shrines for others, especially those who aren't as confident in English as a foreign language - because I do remember not getting into shrining for the longest time just because I was really anxious my English wasn't good enough yet (as in, not being confident enough to write to an audience with lots of native speakers).

[Mikari]

I used to visit shrines in both English and Spanish in the past. My first site had some Spanish fanfics, though most of them were in English. I used to know a lot of Spanish sites back in the early 2000s, though I've lost track of them and by now most (if not all) of them are likely gone anyway.

I feel more comfortable writing in English, probably because most of the media I consume is in English (though Japanese in origin), and I feel that I can reach more people, so I doubt I would write anything in Spanish in the future. Also I'm completely dependent on the spell checker to make my posts/articles/stories readable in either language. XD

I find that most directories don't list sites in different languages because the owner might not understand them and not know what exactly they're linking, which is understandable. Though I suppose an alternative would be to ask a friend who does understand that particular language to check the site, albeit not everyone might want to do that, or even know someone who could check. Google translate is also an option, even if it'll probably make the site sound funny.

I would check out a site in a different language if someone links me to it. This is not something I'm likely to stumble upon, but if someone shares a link, I'll have a look.

[nyxmidnight]

There's always my bilingual Sky Doll shrine, even if it's a mediocre example...

Personally I would be more than happy to join a French community, but Québec does not have that type of fannish culture and I don't really like the fannish culture of France. I wouldn't even know where to start looking for French shrines, honestly. I don't know what word they would use to translate "shrine".

I agree with Mikari, though, that it probably has a lot to do with the language you originally consume the media in. For exemple, I consume video games in English, but 95% of my mangas in French, including the manga Bleach and the bande dessinée Sky Doll. If I were to make that plan of a Renji/Ichigo shrine of mine come true, I would use the French manga as a base because in my head, the characters' voices are in French. I wrote fanfiction of these two in French because of it.

Another point is audience. I mean, I could redo my Sky Doll shrine and build my Renji/Ichigo shrine in French. Who would enjoy it? Certainly not any of you (aside from Delphine). None of my online friends either. But you are the audience I aim to please! So I shrine in English. Even if, in the case of Sky Doll, you don't actually have access to the original material (Marvel published the first three books but heavily censored them).

[dubiousdisc]

Well, my first fansite was in Italian, and back then (ten years ago or so) there was a pretty lively Italian fansite community, but I don't think any longer; I think that most of the people who used to be in that circle now write meta in English, and not necessarily on fansites (I'm thinking just standalone meta articles on their blogs, for instance).

I'm not sure I'd want to make a multilingual shrine anymore because of audience and because the fannish Italian group is mostly people who can also speak English. More or less same for the French group, as far as I can tell from my friends and friends of friends. Don't know about the Spanish-speaking segment, but I never looked much in that direction.

However - there are a few things that I like that have a more active fandom in one language than the others (Mahoujin Guru Guru and Rose of Versailles come to mind - neither have much of an English-speaking fanbase, but Guru Guru has a pretty decent Italian fanbase, and Rose of Versailles was HUGE in Europe but is mostly a niche thing in the US from what I can tell), so if I were to write about that, then maybe I could consider having a multilingual shrine. But I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. Personally speaking, of course.

Also, pretty much everything that Lethe said upthread, about why I even learned English, why I write in English, the fact that my first language is more intimate and pretty much showing my underpants to the world and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with that, and so on, and so on. (I wonder if these are things that are common to people who have English as their second, third, or whatever language).

If there are any other communities, someone please point me to them, but as far as I can tell, I really don't think there's anything anymore. I think it's just people associating by fandom on Tumblr and talking meta.

[Destinie]

Some great input! I think we would LOVE to also have non-English shrines if they were created by members of Amassment where English was not their first language. Though, as mentioned, it would be extremely difficult to make the community accessible for those who did not understand English, and in that vein is what I sort of was getting at with exclusivity.

[Chibi]

I pretty much quote everything that Dubs said. My first fansites were all in Italian. Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the fannish Italian community was really strong (I remember visiting LOADS of Beyblade sites, those were the good old days! XD), but now it's died out. I really can't find any fannish Italian sites anymore. My fandom Italian friends mainly hang out on tumblr (which I don't use), that's where the community is now. Italian shrines are literally non-existant.

As for whether I'd make a fansite in Italian again... Being bilingual, it wouldn't be hard, but I personally think it'd be a waste of time and effort for me. Since the web designing fannish Italian community is dead, there would be no point in making an Italian version of my fansites. Maybe I'd consider doing it if the subject was originally Italian, but if it wasn't, I wouldn't do it. It takes me a long time just writing a shrine in English (not because of language problems, but because of lack of motivation, free time, etc.), if I had to write the shrine twice it would really never see the light of day. XD; Plus, I feel very comfortable writing in English.

That's just my two cents.