Community and Practices: Past and Present

[Lethe]

Hi, everyone! We are launching a discussion series that is all about revisiting old topics from Amassment's LiveJournal days. It'll be interesting to see how opinions or practices may have changed within the community (or perhaps how your opinions may have changed, if you've been around that long!) and to see what our current members are thinking about some of these things! (Psst, you can thank Aku for the discussion series name and Camy for the gorgeous banner.)

For every discussion we revisit, we will also provide the link to the respective LJ discussion; if interested, you're invited to compare the present to the past input and comment on said past input as well. (When commenting on past input, please keep it to community trends and such, rather than making it personal by fishing out specific posts. Remember that the LJ days are from a whole while back, and it's likely that even the members who have posted there hold different opinions now.)

Let's start this with some reflections on shrines, people and community past and present!

The following is a discussion topic from September 2009! You might also be interested in the forum topics Retro Shrine Features (March 2016), Icons/Avatars Section (May 2014), New Media (August 2013), Affiliates vs Links (April 2014) and Site Promotion (October 2012).

Some of you have been making and/or visiting shrines for quite some time, and perhaps you've been in the community just as long (not just Amassment, as other communities used to exist). How has the shrine community evolved over time: What things have stayed the same, what things have changed? What about shrine practices and elements? Are there particular aspects or features about the community and shrines that used to be common and that you now miss? Are there new elements that you like a lot?

[Robin]

How has the shrine community evolved over time? What things have stayed the same, what things have changed?

When I got into shrining in October of 2003 (with a Yu-Gi-Oh! site), the shrining world was very different, like so:

- emphasis on small, animated, SUPER-sparkly graphics--EVERYONE had to make some or they weren't "legit" shrinemakers
- everyone had to make "claim a character" badges for their shrines, otherwise it wasn't a "legit fansite" (UGH)
- basically if you didn't know how to make super pretty graphics you were worthless and should pack up/jump off a cliff
- if you sent questions to graphics makers asking how they did it, they would often answer you like "hahahaha lowly noob I will not even deign to answer your paltry request you are simply too dull to learn the arcane arts I practice"
- hate sites/flame sites EVERYWHERE
- emphasis on topsites rankings/lots of fights over people artificially inflating their topsites rankings
- THE MASSIVE IMPORTANCE OF GOOGLE PAGERANKS (lmao)
- I remember 500px-wide banners being big, or was it 525px width? Either way I was like "holy crap that's a huge image wtf that will never load on my dialup connection D:"
- people would feud with each other over making shrines to the same character/relationship, like "omg you're competing with me back off this is MY topic for MY site you're plagiarizing me," etc.
- also horrible ship feuds between designers for weeks and months X_x

(basically everything bad about shrining has now moved to Tumblr. BAHAHAHAHA)

However, a couple of things have stayed the same, such as:

- making layouts that are more interactive art than purely functional
- using a shrine as a gateway into a fandom
- creating shrines as personal dedications to subject matter rather than just infodumps

Quite frankly, I think we all just grew up and got out of the petty BS! LOLOL

What about shrine practices and elements? Are there particular aspects or features about the community and shrines that used to be common and that you now miss? Are there new elements that you like a lot?

I loved the old iframe layouts that were SOOOOO POPULAR in around 2004-2007. MAN I miss iframes, and transparency (even though it was a bitch to code for). It just seems like layouts used to be more compact, unique, and "prettier" somehow, and a lot of the responsive design/modern web stuff just looks so boxy and same-y. :/

I also miss the practice of creating giant link list pages with links to lots of other shrines on the same topic (though that might have just been me and my link-hoarding self, come to think of it xD).

I do, however, like the new element/practice of including Wikipedia articles and official website links for basic info on a subject. It eases the pressure of having to be "the #1 site on the internet for information about [topic]!" :D

[Destinie]

For me, I think the main thing that has changed is that people actually put content in their shrines now. I recently was using archive.org to look at old shrines I used to visit and realized how little content or information were in the shrines that I used to visit. People would have a basic "profile" page and then maybe a "why I like this character" page, but then the rest of the site was just TONS of link buttons. I love looking at the old PokeShrines Network I used to frequent. You can see if some of the sites load how different Pokemon shrines are now, for example!

To ride on what Robin was talking about: A lot of shrines used to have to have cliques attached to them! IMO this may have been what inspired fanlistings.

I think shrines used to be more of a way to network with people and there used to be a lot of shrines to the same characters. I remember an internet friend and I talked about making a Kari (from Digimon) shrine together just because there were ~so many~ and we felt like we needed to fit in and make one. It never really got anywhere but I think that kind of illustrates the mentality.

I do kind of miss some of the weird design practices and how simple it was, but on the other hand I really like seeing shrines these days. I do feel like I get a lot more out of them and I appreciate the amount of effort people put in to show they love a subject than just making something that [used to] appear as though it was for attention or to "fit in".

[dubiousdisc]

- if you sent questions to graphics makers asking how they did it, they would often answer you like "hahahaha lowly noob I will not even deign to answer your paltry request you are simply too dull to learn the arcane arts I practice"

(basically everything bad about shrining has now moved to Tumblr. BAHAHAHAHA)

Oh you slay me. XD

I loved the old iframe layouts that were SOOOOO POPULAR in around 2004-2007. MAN I miss iframes, and transparency (even though it was a bitch to code for). It just seems like layouts used to be more compact, unique, and "prettier" somehow, and a lot of the responsive design/modern web stuff just looks so boxy and same-y. :/

To be honest I completely agree with the sentiment - but I have seen that more in things like, average company sites, and less so in shrines. Actually, I'd say that the average shrine today is probably one of the prettiest and most original-looking sites you may visit! I don't really think that has to do with moving away from iframes and towards responsive etc. etc., but rather with...a perceived "professional" approach to webdesign that is often sensible in terms of usability but ends up looking very dull and the same as everything else. I say, why can't we have it all?!

I do, however, like the new element/practice of including Wikipedia articles and official website links for basic info on a subject. It eases the pressure of having to be "the #1 site on the internet for information about [topic]!" :D

THAT IS SUCH A GREAT THING, ISN'T IT?? I like this development :D

For me, I think the main thing that has changed is that people actually put content in their shrines now. I recently was using archive.org to look at old shrines I used to visit and realized how little content or information were in the shrines that I used to visit. People would have a basic "profile" page and then maybe a "why I like this character" page, but then the rest of the site was just TONS of link buttons.

Wow, that's a good point, and you're so right! And yeah, I think that might be related to the thing you were mentioning about lots of shrines popping up because other people were making them. Hell, that's why I made my first one - because other people were; I don't remember really considering what I personally had to offer before starting, and neither did most people - and so most shrines would be the same three pages and maybe one original section if you got lucky, and lots of COMING SOON! links that usually didn't amount to anything. I remember even instituting an affiliation policy for my site and having "have a few finished pages" as a requirement for appearing in the list. That's another thing of yesteryear - petty affiliation wars, in which I totally took part. (I repent!!)


One thing that I personally really loved to see in fansites and used to be a lot more common but not anymore is the section comparing the character that is being shrined to other similar characters. For me it was always a treasure trove of "other things I might be interested in". :D

A thing that I love about the current state of affairs is how people end up reading fansites for things they are not fans of (yet!) because of the author. Generally, there's more of a sense of authorship with shrines as of lately, which I love - don't get me started on a giant rant about how important well-written and well-thought media critique is!

(There's probably a lot more, but this post is long enough already...)

[Destinie]

A thing that I love about the current state of affairs is how people end up reading fansites for things they are not fans of (yet!) because of the author. Generally, there's more of a sense of authorship with shrines as of lately, which I love - don't get me started on a giant rant about how important well-written and well-thought media critique is!

AH! This is a really excellent point that I have never actually consciously thought of before! YES, I do read other shrines by other people because I have become invested in their work!

Getting a new shrine by someone you essentially "follow", to me, is like getting that next issue of your subscription in the mail. That excitement where you can't wait to see what they have in store. That definitely wasn't a thing that I noticed or could relate to in the past but these days it's a really fun experience to see someone's new shrine for the first time.

[Robin]

- if you sent questions to graphics makers asking how they did it, they would often answer you like "hahahaha lowly noob I will not even deign to answer your paltry request you are simply too dull to learn the arcane arts I practice"

(basically everything bad about shrining has now moved to Tumblr. BAHAHAHAHA)

Oh you slay me. XD

Mwahahaha new forum title: "Slayer of Dubs" xD

I loved the old iframe layouts that were SOOOOO POPULAR in around 2004-2007. MAN I miss iframes, and transparency (even though it was a bitch to code for). It just seems like layouts used to be more compact, unique, and "prettier" somehow, and a lot of the responsive design/modern web stuff just looks so boxy and same-y. :/

To be honest I completely agree with the sentiment - but I have seen that more in things like, average company sites, and less so in shrines. Actually, I'd say that the average shrine today is probably one of the prettiest and most original-looking sites you may visit! I don't really think that has to do with moving away from iframes and towards responsive etc. etc., but rather with...a perceived "professional" approach to webdesign that is often sensible in terms of usability but ends up looking very dull and the same as everything else. I say, why can't we have it all?!

Agreed! (Though I will say, now that I have had some sleep and have looked back at what I wrote while drowsy--dangerous practice, that :P--I think I was also referencing the old "big header image/2-3 content columns" layout practice that got super popular after iframes sorta fell out of style. All the shapes on the page ended up super duper square/rectangular because of this, and I wanted to have my information flow shaped differently but couldn't figure out how. Bleh)

One thing that I personally really loved to see in fansites and used to be a lot more common but not anymore is the section comparing the character that is being shrined to other similar characters. For me it was always a treasure trove of "other things I might be interested in". :D

YAAAAAAS I generally try to do this but sometimes don't get around to it. LOL *writes down yet another article idea for upcoming shrines*

[Tara]

One of the biggest things I've noticed in a change in is similar to what Destinie touched on--there was less content and more focus on media topics like FMV screen captures, avatars, official artwork--and while that is still something some people still include in their shrines, there's less of a focus on that and more on original content. There's also not much statistical content either! For example, most characters from RPG's had a page dedicated to their stats, their weapons, armour, etc. It seems people have strayed from that a bit to focus more on in-depth topics that require more analysis than simply making tables with content on stats. That's not to say stats and lists aren't important or less valuable--simply, people have started making their shrines more about their own original content. Shrines seem to be more personal nowadays and I really enjoy that.

As far as layouts go, I've noticed less small fonts have been used and there's more a focus on bigger fonts that are easy to read, and even the inclusion of a creators own fonts that make coding look very nice. It's a good thing to stray from IMO... my glasses can only do so much. I don't like having to squint to read content. >_<